The SAC totally put the smack down on the MS-R and Z0k. Suckers got booted to BS. So now, what's CS going to look like? How is the BRZ/FR-S going to do? Is the RX-8 going to re-emerge as a contender, at least on sweeper intensive courses? I like this rebalance, personally.
Also - how about FS? Anyone know if an E46 M3 could hang with a 5.0 Mustang? How much tire and camber can you got on one of those?
Regarding the "magic" R1R - has anything been proven that this particular size is different than the others? 84 Carrera - strcarrera.blogspot.com 04 Mini SMF
wow that's the first time I recall naming a specific size of a specific tire. it makes me want them.
wrote ... The SEB is considering, per 14.3.D, the following addition to the ST tire exclusion list, effective 1/1/2013: Toyo Proxes R1R 195/50-15 size only
Ooh GRM has 225/45ZR15 Toyo Proxes R1R on 15x7 Rota RB wheels on their project Fiesta
[ Edited Fri Jun 22, 2012 - 10:03AM ] Eric Penn - 2011 Ford Fiesta Solo Safety Steward Flagging and Communications 2013-14 Board Member 2012 Great Lakes Solo Series 1st place STF 2012 Detroit Region SCCA Solo Series 1st place STF
the 195 is a different compound thats significantly grippier than the other sizes. Its also the tire Andy Hollis is using to lay the smackdown in his mazda2. Haters gonna hate ;-)
Matt Luckow wrote ... Regarding the "magic" R1R - has anything been proven that this particular size is different than the others?
So add the 195 to the exclusion list and what will stop Toyo from making the 225 out of that same compound? Andy Hollis has a ton of notes on the "Hollis Racing" FB page from all his years testing for The Tire Rack and GRM. Very interesting read.
But don't worry there are suppose tpo be 2-3 new manufacturers with competitive "street tires" for next year. You don't think BFGoodrich just wants to be the ofical "street tire" of the SCCA for nothing now do you?
'95 Dodge Neon Sport - FSP #99 '09 Chevrolet Cobalt SS - DS #184
2011 Great Lakes Divisional Champion - DS 2011 Great Lakes Solo Series Champion - DS
I thought that for a tire to be legal in the first place they had to be sold in a certain number of sizes and rim diameters... If the 195 is a different compound, I don't see how it could be legal in the first place?
Same treadwear\pattern, but the 195's are a different compound. Its 110 bucks on tirerack...hardly an expensive tire and one of the cheaper tires in the segment...im against banning it personally...but I drive worn out hankook rs2's so what do I care. Star Spec 2 comes out next year...should be a good one.
PS Shawn thanks for the ride along mentoring in the ladybug. The video got a chuckle to Robert when he heard you blame the helmet scanning on him...he laughed for a while. ;-)
Matt Luckow wrote ... The SAC totally put the smack down on the MS-R and Z0k. Suckers got booted to BS.
Oh, the joys of class racing. Competitive one day, also ran the next ... based on a few key strokes in a meeting room somewhere.
Reminds me a lot of my drag racing days in the IHRA. "It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first." President Ronald Reagan
SeniorPBA2B wrote ... Oh, the joys of class racing. Competitive one day, also ran the next ... based on a few key strokes in a meeting room somewhere. [/quote]
Reminds me a lot of my drag racing days in the IHRA. [/html]
If you consider that a CS ZOK was 1.7 seconds faster than BS at Nationals last year, and an MS-R was 0.6 seconds faster, it hardly seems like these cars are becoming an "also-ran." When the S2K was booted from BS up to AS (which is now BS again), they continued to win. Contrary to what you might think, they don't make these changes just to make people angry. People are just really good at finding things to be angry about.
[ Edited Fri Jun 22, 2012 - 03:51PM ] Kenneth Tsang IC Engineering
Jen Merideth wrote ... I thought that for a tire to be legal in the first place they had to be sold in a certain number of sizes and rim diameters... If the 195 is a different compound, I don't see how it could be legal in the first place?
SCCA doesn't measure the tires themselves. They rely on the UTQG standards from the NHTSA. What it sounds like with the 196 Toyo is it has a harder outer compound with a softer inner compound. So once shaved the tire is incredibly grippy. The reason a lot of local competitors don't see this is if you run the tire at full tread you've essentially "heat cycled" the good out of the inner compound. At least that's my understanding from what I've gathered.
That's also why the Toyo R1R ALL SIZES should be put on the exclusion list and not just one size.
Any talk of tires gets really messy especially if you have more than one manufacturer that is willing to build a super competitive tire. For example now that BFG has the R1-S how long will it be till the Hoosier A7 is out?
'95 Dodge Neon Sport - FSP #99 '09 Chevrolet Cobalt SS - DS #184
2011 Great Lakes Divisional Champion - DS 2011 Great Lakes Solo Series Champion - DS
Matt Luckow wrote ... The SAC totally put the smack down on the MS-R and Z0k. Suckers got booted to BS.
Oh, the joys of class racing. Competitive one day, also ran the next ... based on a few key strokes in a meeting room somewhere.
Reminds me a lot of my drag racing days in the IHRA.
Hey Jim:
There's a difference between IHRA and SCCA Solo, which you've never acknowledged, although you like to use the "few key strokes" comment.
The move is a proposal. It doesn't take place right away; it's proposed for 2013. Not at all like IHRA, NASCAR, IndyCar, etc., where a technical bulletin is issued and changes take place the next race.
Not all proposals pass; although I suspect that the few Z0K and MS-R owners may not be able to kill this. If one don't like it, provide input or talk to a SEB or BoD member (although I suspect you couldn't care less about Solstices).
The important question to you, Jim - can a BMW 318 8v (E30) be competitive in FSP?
Jen Merideth wrote ... "People are just really good at finding things to be angry about."
::insert clappy smilie that I can't find here::
+1
+2
Here is something I posted on another forum about this treadwear/different compound issue. Try not to go spouting rumors on stuff you don't know to actually be true.
"When a tire gets treadwear tested, it is tested by an independent laboratory. The tires are compared to a known control tire (a uniroyal tiger paw). Testing is done by driving actual miles on the road. After testing is complete the laboratory sends the tire manufacture a report stating the MAXIMUM treadwear rating the can have.
Now the manufacture has the option to under rate the treadwear. Example: They are allowed to rate the tire at 350 but choose to rate it at 250. They might under rate it for marketing purposes. Another tire line they have (with higher profit margins) might have a treadwear rating of 300 that they want to sell more of.
I could see in the case of the ST* tire battle that manufactures see the minimum treadwear rating for the class is 140. They also know that people look at this rating and assume it must mean a more grippy tire. So they under rate it at 140 when it could actually be 200. And maybe the Toyo is actually a 140 treadwear tire.
So it might not be that the Toyo is a cheater tire at all. It could be that every other tire is just bending the truth a bit
On the other hand it would be very expensive to treadwear test every single size in a tire line. Usually only selected sizes are tested and Toyo did NOT test the 195. And maybe they do use a different tread compound in it knowing it's wears faster. People could get testing done themselves. Include the Dunlop and Hankook tires in it. Just shell out about $20,000 to $30,000 grand for it.
But, if they do put it on the exclusion list is it going to ruin the CRX/CIVIC/Miata? No, probably not. Will it change things? Absolutely. My guess is that those three cars will STILL be the dominate cars in those classes.
I bet Toyo will not be happy though. Maybe the letters against the exclusion list should focus more on losing support from Toyo and the effect on the club rather than on peoples individual reasons."
Oh, the joys of class racing. Competitive one day, also ran the next ... based on a few key strokes in a meeting room somewhere. 
